Conflicting Beliefs/Opinions

[Sandbox Sally]

edited for peace of mind :)

[Dreamalittledream]

Wow, for sure two weeks of her crying it out should have gotten the message through to the child that she must sleep! Do they nap her at home? Same routine as you? I know with the 14 month old that I have (have had her since Jan) it was a struggle...bottle to bed, exactly warm enough (aargh) and as well, I had to let her cry it out & not check on her until I knew she was asleep (God bless Visual monitors) or the crying jag would start all over again. It was a challenge, but she got it within the first week. I also found that if I didn't nap her for an hour in the am. As well and tried to delay it to everyone else's time in the aft., she was way overtired and an even more challenge by 12:30p. My other challenge is a 2 year old I have that has to have a bottle of milk, a white noise sound machine going and total dark room...sheesh! You've certainly given it a good try and would not feel bad terminating because things just aren't working out.

[sunnydays]

You need and deserve your break. I don't think this can go on as it is as you will burn out or melt down or both ;) Did you discuss napping during the interview at all (I am also making notes for myself as it is something I discuss in the itnerview, but not in detail and now I am thinking perhaps in detail is better so everyone is on the same page). It sounds like you have conflicting parenting/caregiving styles and that is the main problem. If the child is used to crying it out, that may well be the only way you are going to get her to sleep. I understand your feelings as I never really did it with my own kids (although I sometimes did if they were having trouble going down and overtired, but even then it was after around the age of a year when I knew they understood better. And I hated it when people told me I should let them cry it out as I wasn't asking for advice! So, you may not like my advice, but I don't know what else to suggest. I would say if she wakes up early, go back and lay her down and tell her naptime isn't over yet, rub her back a little and leave and let her cry...go back and repeat every 5 min or so until she sleeps. I've had great success with this method with some little ones who won't nap for their parents, but will here now. Otherwise, you may have to terminate!

[Skysue]

I have a new family.This week will be their third. The child is a terrible napper. She's 13 months, and the most I've gotten from her is 35 minutes. It's mostly been about 20. I need my break...ugh.

Two things:

1. Her parents want me to let her cry it out. I hate it. I do it because they've asked me to, and they say it's the only way she will sleep, but I am nauseated by the whole process.

2. It's not working anyway. The other day, her mother said, "oh well, I guess that's just how she's going to nap for you". This is a problem for me. I seriously need quiet time to recharge, eat, clean up, and goof off on the internet. I NEED it.

3. So far, her screaming has interrupted the naps of other children seven times (not that I'm frustrated and counting every time it happens :blink:)

Advice? Is it time to think about termination? I can replace her, but is this unfair to her parents?
Is it fair to me to lose my break?

I had a little one last year with the same issues and it turns out the parents put him to bed at 5:30 pm and he woke at 6:30 am everyday no wonder he didn’t nap very long.

I’m just curious as to what are the parents doing? What is her exact nap schedule and routine for her at home?

Not to start a whole new post on your topic but I find parents these days don’t give a rats a$$ about if they sleep at daycare all they care about is there own quality time alone at home without there kids. If I worked all day and was away from my child for 9 hours you can bet I wouldn’t put them to bed right after dinner. My DD goes to bed at 9:30-10pm as we love out “family” time. I know I’m sure I’ll get a bad Mother post because of that!

[sunnydays]

Skysue, I am like you, my kids go to bed between 8 and 8:30 (they are 22 months and almost 4) because we like having time in the evening with them and I am with them all day too! I know most of my dck's go to bed way earlier...although for some of them it's because they are young and get tired by 7pm. I have encountered this attitude as well..."I don't care if she/he naps"...well I DO! However, I also have a pretty great group of parents at the moment who mostly seem to get that I need a break. It is for their child's well-being as well..a tired grumpy caregiver is not going to be able to keep going without losing patience.
By the way, Allpha, I also find that giving them a morning nap helps the afternoon naps go better...then they are not overtired. I have three 13-15 month olds and they all still morning nap..I hope to cut it soon as I would like to do more outings, but they seem to need it!

[Inspired by Reggio]

Oh getting kids on a healthy sleep pattern seems to be the bane of daycare providers existence lately .... either the parents want the nap eliminated way to early or the kid has never had a healthy sleep pattern or environment from the get go and so does not know 'how' to sleep anymore :(

I have had several infants in the past few years who are just well for a lack of a better word 'allergic' to the pack n play and had to skip that entirely ... they would not just learn to feel safe and fall asleep no matter what I tried ... rocking them before hand, patting bums while in it, leave and let em CIO nothing worked they would just scream and claw and get so worked up they would puke in there and weeks would go by and it would not be any better and I would have a few new grey hairs from the lack of BREAK and well listening to that during nap time and dealing with an exhausted house of children from the disrupted sleep time :(

My newest one I could get to fall asleep in there if I swaddled him and than wiggled the crib for a few minutes - he went to sleep EASY but he would only sleep 20 minutes in that thing and wake up screaming like you had pulled out toe nails and wake the whole house and not go back to sleep - I tried everything hoping to 'stretch' him to sleep the two hour time frame but aside from staying IN the room with him so when he woke up he did not get freaked out nothing worked and well I was not willing to be up in a bedroom for two hours and if I left him to CIO he would puke :(

So finally out of 'necessity' for my sanity to be able to get things done and the others in the house to be able to sleep too - I just let him sleep on the couch in my livingroom swaddled up so he cannot 'roll over' cause he is only 10 months old ... I put pillows around him and on the floor and the little bugger will sleep THREE HOURS there ... when he wakes mid sleep cycle and can 'see me' either at the laptop at the diningroom table or in the kitchen prepping snack - he falls right back to sleep but if he is 'alone' in a room upstairs his anxiety rises and he screams and wakes up the whole house!

This is the THIRD infant in 5 years I have had to do this with because they would NOT go into the pack and play and sleep properly ... it got worse and worse in there with the screaming longer and longer and harder and puking and so forth and just not worth the aggravation to try to make them do it when they can and will sleep in other options ... with the others I just put them straight onto a cot which is what I will do with this little one too but at the moment I have a full house of kids and do not have any extra cots to put him on so the couch will have to do!

[ladyjbug]

``The other day, her mother said, "oh well, I guess that's just how she's going to nap for you". This is a problem for me. I seriously need quiet time to recharge, eat, clean up, and goof off on the internet. I NEED it.``

Depending on how the mother said that above statement, I might consider replacing. Reason being, if the mother said it in a way that made it seem like I didn`t deserve a break in my ten hour day, which I need the way you have described it, I would look for a family that was willing to work to get their infant on my schedule ahead of time. Seems like the mom doesn`t care that your day is hard because of what may or may not be the schedule at home. Only you can decide what is too much, but weeks of non-stop naptime screaming would definitely get to me after a while.

2 weeks with no improvement sounds like a really hard transition. At this point I start thinking of what is best for me and the rest of the group. If this infant is affecting the quality of care for others in the daycare, then it might be time to look for a replacement. I would put it to the mom that way too, if you want to give her warning. Maybe she doesn`t care if it affects YOU, but if it is affecting other kids`care, then that is a serious problem.

[Sandbox Sally]

So finally out of 'necessity' for my sanity to be able to get things done and the others in the house to be able to sleep too - I just let him sleep on the couch in my livingroom swaddled up so he cannot 'roll over' cause he is only 10 months old ... I put pillows around him and on the floor and the little bugger will sleep THREE HOURS there ... when he wakes mid sleep cycle and can 'see me' either at the laptop at the diningroom table or in the kitchen prepping snack - he falls right back to sleep but if he is 'alone' in a room upstairs his anxiety rises and he screams and wakes up the whole house!

Hmm, worth a try. I normally spend a lot of my break time in my own room where my desktop pc is. Maybe I'll swaddle her and put her on my bed, staying in the room, and see how that works. Thanks for the tip!

[mom-in-alberta]

I completely agree with ladyjbug. The parents' reaction to this issue would be a challenge for me. If I have explained to you what the situation is, told you WHY I need things to be a certain way, and you shrug your shoulders at me and say "Oh well".... Hmmmmm.
I am not an advocate for "my way or the highway". I understand that not everyone is going to parent the way I do, or think the way I do. If I only worked with those that I COMPLETELY agreed with when it comes to methodology..... well, I would be empty, hahaha.
But it is important that you and the parents are working as a team, and that your core beliefs are the same. This may end up being a dealbreaker.

[Inspired by Reggio]

....But it is important that you and the parents are working as a team, and that your core beliefs are the same. This may end up being a dealbreaker.

I agree ... consistency for children is key and while there can be some 'differences' between home and program so that children learn about diversity the CORE things need to be consistent for a child to thrive ... SLEEP is definitely a CORE value ... same with approaches to EXPECTATIONS around FOOD and BEHAVIOR GUIDANCE....everythi ng else I can work around to some degree.

[Sandbox Sally]

Think I'm almost ready, guys...

Today she is not only screaming her head off right now during quiet time, but she has cried ALL. MORNING. LONG. She cried at the park, she cried in my yard with my cool new play house and sand and water table and slide. She cried during snack. She cried during lunch. Well, you get the idea.

I emailed her mom just now and let her know how it's been going. I asked for advice, and asked her how things have been going at home sleep wise. I guess I'll see what she says, and try til the end of the week, but seriously, if it's no better, I will have to let her go. Bummer.

[Skysue]

I had a child like this and it took 3 months. Is she full time or part time.

Stay consistant and on routine with this one as she needs it.

As It's really hard on her, all you can do is put her in her nap room with white noise and she will adjust trust me. If she screams at the park keep her in her stroller as long as she is safe & she will be fine. How is she when you try holding her?

[sunnydays]

Ugh...I had one like this and after 9 months I finally had to let her go (there were other issues too). If I had been more experienced at the time I would have let her go in that first month...at almost 2 years of age she started crying all the time again everywhere we went...it was awful and we drew crowds everywhere we went.

[Sandbox Sally]

kanga,

Yes. That's the thing. I had a 2 year old crier for 8 months, and her mom finally pulled her out a month ago. I will not do another 8 month stretch. I am DONE with the constant crying after a certain period of time. I think two weeks is more than enough time to adjust, especially since she's been in care before. I just can't do the half hour nap. Cannot and will not. I basically just told her mother this via email. She replied to my last message by saying that the dcp she had before would get a good 30 min to an hour out of her. Uh. No.

I am drawing up the termination letter now. If this doesn't change this week, it's being sent home with her on Thur (she's not here Fridays). Thanks for the advice, ladies.

[Momof4]

Aw, so sorry it isn't working out. We need and deserve our middle of the day quiet break time or we will lose our everloving minds! Best of luck to you with the replacement family.

[Sandbox Sally]

I've decided to give her an extra week. Apparently, there were a few things that I was unaware of, and now that I am aware, I think she just needs some extra time.

Mom's a first time mom, and she's been giving her 8-9 hours of sleep a night since daycare started. No wonder she's not napping and is a cranky girl...she's not sleeping enough! Also, dcg is teething, and her mom tells me that the last time she was teething, she was beside herself, so I think another week or so could make a big difference. Mom called me last night and said, "omg I totally see what you dealt with all day! she's a mess, and this totally isn't her."

So we're trying Tempra every for hours, and that seems to have helped a bit, and I have put her down for an hour in the AM both yesterday and today, and so far...well, we'll see. :unsure:

[sunnydays]

Good luck Alpha! I feel for you! I think it is reasonable to stick it out for another week and see if you can get any improvement. It does sound like she is overtired. I have one little guy who was on one nap until he started with me at 12 months, but he had such a hard time sleeping at afternoon naptime that I tried givingin him a morning nap and it was like a miracle...he started sleeping better in the afternoon and even slept better at night for the parents. Sleep begets sleep. My own kids sleep between 11 and 12 hours at night and still take a good 2 hour nap in the afternoon. It does vary from kid to kid, but they do need more sleep than us! Also, it depends how early she is getting up in the morning. I hope the AM naps help. Sending quiet naptime vibes your way!

[Momof4]

It's great that the Mom is understanding and willing to work with you and appreciates your advice. I see promise there, hope you do too! If the parents are working with me I will always keep trying.

[Littledragon]

This is the way that I see it: you are running a business. Yes, you are helping people raise their children, but above all, you are running a business. Mom/dad and caregiver need to be on the same page. If that is not possible, then it's not going to work. Mom and dad need to follow the same schedule you're doing - at least for the beginning. The child is now with your the majority of her life, so you are the "ruler". They need to help you help them. You are offering them a service, they are not "entitled" to you. If they are not willing to work with you and help you help them raise their child, then cutting the cord seems to be the only answer.

I'm struggling right now with a dad who drops his kid off after lunch without having fed him lunch! This is not going to work! And I have told them - if you cannot follow my guidelines that are set for a reason, I cannot continue to help you. I am running a business - a very tricky business. If one string breaks, the whole thing could fall apart. If you have a baby that is waking up and crying and waking up the rest of the kids, it's just not ideal. In ANY job, you would have a 1 hour break, if not a one hour break and two fifteen minute breaks. It's the LAW, why should we be any different? Naps are to teach children healthy sleeping habits, but they also to help you. If you're not getting your break, then you're not at your best which means you can't do your job properly.

[mamaof4]

The first comment by the mom had me thinking it was time to end it-- but the fact that she called and sympathized with you makes me think that giving her the extra time is a good idea.

My kids go through phases of being good sleepers and crap sleepers- even at HOME!

I hope next week gets a lot better.

[mom-in-alberta]

I hope that these extra challenges are what is causing the issues, because that means that there is an end in sight!!
:glomp:

[Momof4]

I tell parents at the interview stage that WE ARE A TEAM WE HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER. That's pretty much my motto.

Also, a really smart friend of mine said this: Never negotiate with a terrorist, a teenager or a toddler. Just take charge.

This tagline is now on my bulletin board near my front door for all parents to see. It's so true! If parents take charge of their little ones with specific routines the way we HAVE to with 5 little ones in care every day there would be so much less craziness in their households. These little ones know when they can rule the house and take charge of their parents rather than the other way around. I tell parents all the time, you need to take back your household because this little tiny person is running you in circles. Sad but true.

[Sandbox Sally]

Nightmare morning. I am actually sitting here with tears in my eyes. She "fake" cried all morning, meaning there are NO tears, and it's more of an incredibly loud whine than a cry. My kids are home today, and my mom's visiting, and I got to the point where I absolutely refused to let anyone pick her up, as I could see that she was manipulating me. Something would catch her interest, and she'd stop for a minute, then she'd remember she was whining, so she'd start again. NO tears. I really don't think it's her teeth any more. She refuses the sling. She wants to be held and have her back rubbed constantly, and this is week three. I just can't physically do it.

Parents got her to have 12 hours sleep last night, and right now I am listening to her scream from the other room. She napped for TWENTY minutes. It's been three weeks.

I. AM. DONE.

[playfelt]

Momof4 I love it. Hubby is military, all my own 4 kids are 19 years or older and I have a houseful of toddler daycare.......it so applies here.

[Momof4]

Alpha, I have a 16 month old boy who can fake cry off and on like a switch and he screamed for 4 months before I got him to be happy here FINALLY! Now, when he starts up I very loudly use his name & STOP! Guess what, he does stop! I know it sounds terrible, but then after I use the loud voice initially and he stops then I soothingly say to him, that's a good boy, no need to cry and other little things like that so he's getting good attention for stopping. Then I quickly move on to something else.

I had to find a solution because he's extremely loud and was making all the other children and me crazy with his nonstop screaming. I can't believe I lasted for 4 months but the parents kept working with me and we got him under control. Today was one of those days when he turned it off and on all day and we still have some of those days. I have to watch him like a hawk because I want to see if one of the other children are bumping into him or anything but nope, he just starts for no reason whatsoever. It's absolutely maddening I know!