''Discipline'' the child when parents are there ?

[DisneyPrincess]

Ok since the 4 pages of threads are all gone because of the ''bomb'' I thought I would just bring in more topics to discuss.

Its been a while now that I am wondering this : Do you intervene in disciplining the child even if the mom or dad is there ?

When the child is misbehaving with ME, I do my thing. Obviously no time-out but I do say to the child that it is unacceptable behaviour. Problem is the parents most of the time give kisses to the kids and tell them ''please dont do that, i loveeee you''

But my attitude little 3 y.o. who has tons of anger often gets upset, hits her parents, stomps her feet, makes angry faces and all they do is cuddle her ?? Sometimes I want to say : You shouldnt cuddle her, she is misbehaving and you are showing her that its ok to act that way !!! It would really help me if we were on the same page about her ''attitude'' problems ?!

What would you do ? say something, say nothing ?

Its been a year that she acts that way and every day I get a taste of her disrespectful behaviour with me, I cant stand it, even though there is time-out to take a breather and after that we are good for a few. I keep telling the parents how tough it is sometimes but I dont ''tell'' them what not to do obviously.

It drives me crazy when I see parents letting their kids do their fit and acting out. When my own girls were little, I did not accept it at all, guess I was a little firm !

[Inspired by Reggio]

My house, my rules and until they are out the door everyone needs to follow them ... so yes if a child is misbehaving during drop off or pick up and the parent does not quickly address it in the manner expected in our code of conduct that YES I would step in because I do not want negative behavior at pick up or drop off escalating to other children who are watching and think 'hey maybe I will try that look at all the attention Johnny is getting with that fit!

A child who HIT their parent would get a very stern talking to by me specially if their parent tried to be all 'oh honey' about it .... NOT ACCEPTABLE regardless of the age of a child to hit another person!

A child who cannot not 'exit the program gracefully with dignity and respect for others' the parent is basically instructed by me to 'time to take them as is please and leave because this is not acceptable behavior for the other children to be watching and should not be negotiated with' ... I had one child leave my home in the middle of winter with no coat or boots cause she was refusing to get dressed for the mother she NEVER did it again because it was bloody cold outside and she had to ride all the way home COLD. If the first time did not solve the problem than from that point onward they would be required to tidy up their activity 10 minutes before their parent 'normally arrives' and to get dressed to go home and be sitting waiting the next day on the step all ready to be picked up ~ this way they can be taken out immediately if they were 'acting up' again and they would continue to do that daily until the child has left the program 'gracefully with dignity and respect' and then they would be allowed to earn back the privilege to continue to play up until their parent arrived ... it usually only takes 2-3 days for the child to realize it is 'easier to behave with dignity and respect' because the tantrum because they do not want to go home does not work!

[kidlove]

you werent "firm" you were a good parent. Any parent who doesn't discipline when the child is acting out and in clear need of discipline is not being a "good parent" IMO. Some parents for some reason feel that discipline has it's own time and place, and others just don't discipline at all. I am a firm believer of firm discipline and "nipping it in the bud" quickly. I have had MANY children I care for behave one way with me and another when the parent comes through the door. Some of them are down right brats and know that when Mom or Dad comes I am no longer the "boss" and they act out, knowing full well that Mom or Dad will do nothing! and others do the "act out" for attention of that parent they missed all day and are now trying to get all the attention from the whole day in one minutes time. Either way...the behavior is inappropriate in my book. I generally give the parent/child one chance to work it out on their own, but if the parent allows the child to disrespect them in front of me continually and does nothing, I will intervene on the parents behalf....never addressing to the parent as to tell them how to handle the child, (teaching them to parent is not my job) rather I will continue to do my job of teaching the child the correct behaviors. I will take the child by the hand to face me, or tap the child on the shoulder, make clear eye contact as I do all day when they are with me, and clearly and firmly state what they need to do..." ________, you need stop crying and put your boots on!" I will ussualy address any ill behavior toward parent as.."_____, do not treat Mommy that way, Mommy loves you and missed you all day, tell her you are sorry and do what you are told". Parents usually appreciate the step in to help them out, alot of times they have had a long day and don't want the fight and other times they are a little embarrassed and appreciate the backup. Depending on the parent, I will ask the child if they would like to take a timeout while Mom or Dad waits? some parents dont mind that as well, just depends on the parenting style and the child. I have also had children that completely disrespect the parent and aside from my efforts we get no where, I just dress them up quick and send them out the door kicking Mom, to that I say.....let them beat you up on your own time! Not mine!

[Inspired by Reggio]

...Its been a year that she acts that way and every day.....but I dont ''tell'' them what not to do obviously....

Well now that the behavior is a 'habit' it is going to be even HARDER to change it specially if you do not have the parents on board!

I agree that every parent has a right to their own parenting style in their own homes cause well they are their children .... however IMO when you choose to enroll your child in a GROUP setting you also need to be prepared to follow the rules and expectations of that GROUP ... if at home your child is allowed to hit and scream and behave like a little demon that is your choice but when you send that same kid to SCHOOL you need to accept that they are going to be sent home or supspended and so forth because that 'behavior' is not tolerated by society!

This is why I have no problem telling my clients what I need and expect from them while HERE ... cause this is my home, my rules and I control what is tolerated here .... if they do not want to instill that behavior or value at home I cannot really control that however I can let them know that inconsistency between home and the group setting will make it harder for their child to adjust between the two varied expectations and if the behavior is a 'deal breaker' for me that their choice not to be consistent about the expectation at home could result in the child being terminated before they have a chance to 'master' the skill because of the inconsistent expectations ... which is usually a pretty good motivator for the parent because it then kicks in that allowing their kid to do this is going to result in no daycare which makes changing the behaviour an easier investment than trying to find a provider willing to deal with that behaviour

[DisneyPrincess]

Yah when I tried once to speak to the girl, she gave more and more attitude, parent ask to say sorry to me but she just kept giving me the eye... she was in daddy's arm looking at me as if saying : Nanana you cant do anything :P Oh my blood was boiling ! I couldnt just grab her from dad's arm and bring her in time-out ??!?!

Some kids screams their eyes out to get dressed when with me, I have zero problems in the morning when I have to dress all 5. But I tried putting mittens on one little girl OMG she was screeaammiinnggg !

Plus isnt it risky to bring in time-out when parents just want to leave ? What if I get problems with the parent after ?!

OMG I am so firm with the kids during the day, but when the parents get here I'm afraid to show them my ''frimness'' perhaps because they'll think I'm too firm and take their kids out

[Inspired by Reggio]

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Plus isnt it risky to bring in time-out when parents just want to leave ? What if I get problems with the parent after ?!

I personally do not use time outs because I find them ineffective so this is not an issue for me ~ I would just be addressing that the behaviour was inappropriate, needed to stop and if it did not that the consquence would be tomorrow you will have to get ready prior to mom and dad arriving so that you can leave without treating mom or dad like that'

At my house if a child is sent for some alone time it is because they have lost 'control' of their emotions and need a safe place to self regulate not as 'punishment' for something they have done ... so they control how long they are 'in an alone space' and than are welcome to return when needed to have a conversation and resolve the conflict that caused them to loose their noodle in the first place

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OMG I am so firm with the kids during the day, but when the parents get here I'm afraid to show them my ''frimness'' perhaps because they'll think I'm too firm and take their kids out

IMO this needs to change or you are going to continue to have issues with pick up and drop off because your daycare children can SEE that you behave inconsistently when other adults are around ... this gives them power and control ...so they are going to misbehave just to TEST how far they can push before you DO do something and over time that will start 'escalating' so that behavior is not just being tested at pick up and drop off but all day long .... the rules and expectations for children need to be the same regardless of who is around or you end up with mutiny over time!

I do not behave any differently with my crew regardless of whose here if they do something that needs redirecting I redirect it, if they have a conflict that needs resolution we resolve it, if they were to do something that made me angry I would let them know in a socially acceptable manner ... IMO we do a child a disservice by pretending that we never have extreme feelings and showing them how we deal with them without 'hitting/yelling/etc' that we tell them not to do ... if I was concerned that my practice might be seen as 'too firm' I would have to honestly reflect on IS IT TRULY and adjust my practice so I could be consistent in front of others or if I truly felt I was just in my actions and handling of situations that way than I would know I some how attracted clients into my program that do not share my values on child rearing in which case it likely would not be a 'bad thing' if they choose to leave because I was FIRM with my expectations for human decency because over time it will ensure I end up with a program that has minimal stress cause the children all behave well

[mimi]

Oh geez stories I could tell about misbehaviour at the door! I instruct the misbehaviour dck's by telling them before pick up that they can not touch the door (opening and closing, running outside) and that they must listen to mom/dad and no crying. This works for a second and then just like DisneyPrincess said, they give the evil eye and nanana look. The parents don't want to discipline because THEY will feel bad having not seen them all day.
I told my dcb (31/2 yr old still in diapers) not to open/close the door in front of parent. I received a side glance from parent not happy I was instructing child not to do this. Excuse me, wind chill is -25 do you want to pay my heating bills?

[daycarewhisperer]

I don't allow parents to parent under my roof. I am the leader until they are off site. I also don't allow ANY violence in my home so when the child hit the parent it would upset me so much that I couldn't have the kid anymore. It's a deal breaker here. There's no amount of money worth me watching violence in my own home. It's not about them.... what's best for them... their needs... their child... their ways. It's just about ME and what I need in MY house. No judgements... I get that there are a lot of parents who are perfectly comfortable with that kind of violence... but I'm not and my dc kids sure the heck arent. Some of them have been here for four plus years and never seen anything violent happen here. I wouldn't want them to witness it or my other clients either. Too risky and too upsetting.

She would be told that it's never to happen again and I wouldn't allow her inside my house with the kid. I would have her deliever the kid to the door step and I would bring her in over the threshhold and receive the child at the outside of my house on the door step. If they made a scene from the front door to the car... then they would have to go. My neighbors wouldn't like that deal AT ALL and they are way higher priority in the food chain than any day care clients or kids. Day care kids come and go but my neighbors are here for decades. I want THEM to live in peace too.

[Inspired by Reggio]

...I told my dcb (31/2 yr old still in diapers) not to open/close the door in front of parent. I received a side glance from parent not happy I was instructing child not to do this. Excuse me, wind chill is -25 do you want to pay my heating bills?

I have the same rule ~ if a client EVER side glanced me about it they TOO would get disciplined

IMO this is not just a 'letting the cold air in or out' issue, or a you are going to break my door handle reefing on it which I agree would suck for sure but ultimately are just about money and are replaceable ... IMO this is a SAFETY issue for all the children in my care ... children are not permitted to open ANY door except the bathroom door because at my house opening doors are an adult job so that I know the children are safe at all times ...IMO when a child feels they are allowed to just open a door that exits the house it opens the reality that they could open it when you are not looking and run out into the street ... you hear those stories on the news about children who 'get loose' from the house because they were not taught to leave the door ALONE until they were old enough to earn that trust and they were hit by a car, died of hypothermia cause the parent thought they were napping and did not check on them until too late and other horrible preventable stories had the exit doors been kept locked and had the child been taught consistently that it was not SAFE to open the door by yourself at your age!

[mimi]

Reggio, it is a Big rule in my daycare not to touch doors even if an older child wants to help by holding door open when we go outside. I remind them only Mimi can touch the doors. You are correct, it is the parents who need the discipline as well. This little guy with the diapers is now in pull ups because I said he wasn't to wear diapers here any longer and training must commence. At pick up he told his mom he peed in his pull ups to wish she told him that was perfectly o.k. I told her no, it is not o.k. If you allow it, then the pull ups become a diaper substitute. She didn't like me telling her that, but too bad. It is that attitude that has delayed his training!